Spotlight on wellbeing for Men's health week

0:00
to attend today there we go thank you and uh and just to remind everyone uh we're recording
0:05
today's session so um if there's anything you get out of today that you want to share with people around you or other people in your workplace that link
0:12
will be live via the website by the defense health website and and also we'll see that i'll
0:18
follow up email around the cancer basis after this as well um so uh
0:24
welcome uh and uh i guess to start off today i'd like to begin with a whakatoki that i think captures some of the
0:30
sentiment that we might touch on today and also one that's dear to my heart as in my
0:36
work as a soldier and as a as a mental health practitioner so um it's a very brief one hitawato mataro bravery has
0:43
many resting places and i think that that's particularly relevant to us here in defence obviously because
0:49
courage is one of our core values and bravery on the battlefield is sort of an inherent part of what we do and who we
0:56
are however i challenge everyone to kind of bring some bravery to other aspects of their life and think about how they
1:01
might use our con what we talk about today to inform other aspects of their life as well and how they might be brave
1:07
about applying some of the stuff we talk about today to other aspects of their life so by way of introduction um i'm steve
1:14
kearney attentional steve kearney i'm the chief mental health officer for nzdf and i work in the health directorate and
1:20
my job essentially is to try and improve the mental health experience and journey for our service members
1:27
um with me today today we have a number of panelists and i'll get them to introduce themselves very shortly um but
1:33
just to kind of introduce the cope up before our session today and to explain a bit of the background
1:39
this week is uh our well-being week uh hosted within defence and we've got a whole bunch of people and events going
1:44
on across camps and bases a whole bunch of people providing either in-person or online webinars
1:50
and the intent of this week is really just to give everyone a chance to pause and reset it's been a very busy couple
1:56
of years for nzdf with myths and with a whole range of other challenges
2:02
the tempo has been high and people have been busy not just our service members but their whanau as well and so as we
2:09
head now head into the kind of regeneration of our of our warfighting capability our defense capability uh and
2:15
the work that comes with that and the focus that is going to come with that we thought it'd be good for everyone just to kind of pause and reflect at this
2:21
stage so we're hoping that everyone uses these seminars or this week as a chance just to stop and think and see if
2:27
there's anything we might need to rejig to head into into the second half of this
2:32
year it's also coincidental that this week across the country is men's health
2:38
and so we wanted to provide a bit of a forum um for people to talk about well-being and then and at the intent
2:44
for this panel and this discussion is that we get it from
2:50
an expert on wellbeing from sort of the ground up which we know from the research that men in particular do do
2:56
tend to listen to their peers as much as experts and over the course of this week we've got a bunch of experts providing
3:01
webinars and camps and seminars on campus and bases we've got dr lucy ohio later in the week talking about
3:07
resilience and well-being under under in really difficult times we've got gemma mccor later this week talking about
3:14
resilience in her perspective on resilience and so we thought this week today and this we're gonna it'll be good
3:19
to talk to some frontline operators so we've got some great guests we've got uh kane briscoe from farmstrom talking
3:25
about his perspective on mental health and wellbeing more broadly we've got josh derby from the fire service
3:31
sorry from foreign emergency new zealand and now we've got jason from our own nzdf
3:37
so the plan for today is that we're going to
3:43
each of our guests is going to provide a short corridor on their perspective and the kind of top tips and
3:49
a bit of this you know what they think matters and and why they think that in terms of their journey and their history um and then we'll have a discussion with
3:56
around a few key questions and if anything else comes up then we'll touch on that with a view to that if you've
4:01
got any questions for our panelists today then please don't hesitate to put them in the q a and we will um and we will
4:08
sort those as they go as we go through and put those to the panel if and when the opportunity allows
4:14
thanks very much team so without sort of further ado i guess we'll get straight to the panel so perhaps uh kane you're
4:20
at the top of my like brady bunch array so i'll start off with you mate if if
4:25
you wouldn't mind maybe just giving us a brief intro to yourself and uh perhaps we start off with just
4:31
brief intros from everyone and then we'll get going to each of your kind of own stories right so maybe a brief intro
4:36
came from yourself yes where it is and uh yeah thanks for having me on um
4:41
so i am uh what am i 35 years old now i'm a currently a dairy farmer but i've
4:46
been in agriculture half my life now so i left left school at the age of 17 and
4:53
went farming and i've done a range of different jobs within the agricultural sector but um you've got a real passion
4:58
for uh animals in the land and working outside um and also i guess as i've as i've gone through
5:05
life's journey a real passion for um helping other people and understanding other people and why we do and say and
5:11
and do all sorts of things and um you're really trying to i guess uplift people through all walks
5:18
of life um i think my story and lessons i've learned is is uh transferable to
5:23
many different people so stoked to be able to talk to a different audience um and yeah big part of me is being sport
5:31
and exercise um so you played rugby all my life and and also dabbled in a bit of boxing and
5:37
rug endurance running and that's really been a big part of
5:42
me trying to be the best person i can and the best farmer i can so that's sort of what i've focused on the last few
5:48
years is is using some of those physical tools to help make other people um
5:53
rise to the challenge of of farming and life and uh get through it a bit easier awesome kane thanks so much mate so a
6:00
lot of threads they're very consistent with kind of defense life in terms of physical fitness being the kind of foundation for for for um
6:08
uh well-being so that's awesome keen to hear more josh if you wouldn't mind kind of just introducing yourself
6:14
even uh kyoto everyone uh josh darvey i'm a career firefighter well um
6:20
seconded it uh currently so off the trucks at the moment but up until recently uh a firefighter on blue watch based at
6:27
ellsley station most of my career i've worked in um the central auckland central district
6:33
um and have a few other little endeavors i like to do i do some writing for fishing news i love i love my fishing
6:39
that's part of my kind of well-being outlet uh and i also am a
6:44
trauma researcher um specific specifically around um
6:51
and my organizational development role at the moment is a movember funded initiative uh basically looking to
6:57
design and evaluate a mental ill health and suicide prevention program for first responders so that that's the
7:04
mahi for me at the moment awesome thanks josh jase you want to introduce yourself briefly
7:11
uh yeah my talk to you at the welcome to work with the manganese
7:29
me i'm currently the uh a wine officer uh within pcp i work closely with the cpo brigadier matt winston
7:36
um oh yeah so but on me i've been in the defense force for 36 years it goes
7:41
pretty quick i really enjoy it it's about our people and our culture
7:47
um outside of it uh you know rugby league fishing all those type of things that
7:52
sort of get out recreationally but really um thrilled to be on the panel today and
7:58
just talk about uh a well-being and some experiences and i think it's about uh i think when i have a clue or someone um
8:05
be able to reminisce uh and actually agree uh
8:11
to how we've sort of evolved through the 80s uh to now so cure thanks very much jason awesome to have
8:17
you all right so uh what we've asked the panel members to do is just to kind of provide a sort of their top tips and a
8:23
bit of their story maybe if that's relevant and and some guidance and then and then as i said we'll we'll go and
8:29
have a bit of discussion around those things so maybe once again if you start with the uk and you've already sort of foreshadowed some of your kind of key
8:35
messages so so what's your soldier's five as we would say in the army anyway around kind of well-being
8:41
and looking after yourself yeah and it's it's it's um you know it's pretty general for everyone i think no
8:47
matter what sort of industry you're in um for me my my sort of big motto is
8:53
you know you can't expect to have good mental health without doing physical things to support it
8:59
like i touched on earlier fitness is fitness and exercise and getting out in nature is really cool for me
9:05
but it's only one of many many tools that i use so um like i'm really big on on those
9:11
physical habits you know i think fellas generally turn towards that exercise in sport
9:18
is the go-to which is nothing wrong with that it's a great way to release a bit of tension and and
9:24
get out with your mates or whatever and do something you love but um you know for me
9:29
uh farming is quite stressful we have a lot of a lot of problems thrown at us just as you guys would um so it's
9:36
actually about trying to strip the emotion out of some of those problems um
9:42
and get them out of my head so i've been really big the last probably five or six years on uh
9:47
i know some people would call it journaling i just call it writing down but you know it's just getting some
9:52
of that clutter out of my head um and and dealing with the facts on a piece of paper i've found hugely
9:59
important and hugely beneficial to uh you know sleeping at night um and and
10:04
relieving some of that stress so i always sort of look at my own health as
10:09
uh the legs on a table so each table has four legs uh or four pillars of health
10:15
um and they uh what you consume and and that's not just what you put in your mouth it's it's who you surround
10:22
yourself with uh what you're watching on the telly or your phone uh what you're listening to who you're listening to all
10:28
of those things that you consume as a person all go into making up your thoughts and actions
10:33
so i'm really clear on you know surrounding myself with positive people and not not buying into
10:39
some of the rubbish on on social media or whatever movement so obviously most of us fellas
10:45
uh get that pretty nailed down you know having an outlet a positive outlet to relieve some of that stress and tension
10:52
and anger or whatever it may be it's really important that we're able to move freely and and do the job
10:58
i guess that we're getting paid to do with um you know physically um stress
11:03
is huge you know a lot of our relationships whether it's with your your work mates your friends or your
11:09
partners um a lot of stress can come from that at times a lot a lot of stress from work
11:14
being having a clear process to be able to manage that stress is really important to um
11:20
to staying healthy upstairs so getting some getting some solid tools in the bank for that
11:26
and um sleep is probably i think one of the number one
11:31
things that that i try and look after you know um farming's an everyday job just like you fellows out out in the
11:37
field uh there's not always a day off sometimes you've got to push through the tough stuff and then work long hours so
11:43
it's really key to be able to um have a process to set yourself up for a good night's sleep
11:51
um and that sort of ties in with that that stress and and movement as well they all work together to support that
11:56
table of health so that would be my my biggest things is is really having a good awareness
12:03
of where you're at what legs on your table are are good and what ones are broken or struggling and
12:10
being able to identify those and and work on them has been really key to be being a good
12:16
functional person and and farmer as well
12:23
that's great kane and a couple of things pop out what you consume not just in terms of what you eat but kind of what you take in that's i think a really
12:30
interesting point and uh and well worth reflecting on um i we've also cause because you gave us a
12:36
heads up on what you're going to talk about we've got a poll ready to go here so just be interested in folks what from
12:42
everyone from those that are attending you know what do they think is most important for them in terms of those four pillars that kane kane mentioned
12:49
right so which would you prioritize getting better at for yourself would what you consume how you move
12:56
managing stress or sleep
13:02
can you guys see that at your end yep so we've got um
13:07
it's pretty even match actually across these at the moment which i guess just goes to your point
13:13
about all these things being interconnected right you know stress impacts on sleep exercise impacts on stress and sleep what you consume draws
13:20
all those things so they're all kind of heavily interconnected
13:26
yeah cool
13:32
okay so pretty even match interesting cool so i might come back to that
13:38
a bit later on good so josh handing over to you before you
13:43
get into a larger discussion what's um what's your top tip what some of your top tips for kind of looking at yourself
13:50
yeah thanks steve i thought i'd change it up a little bit maybe just and talk a little bit about my um my own well-being
13:55
journey and there might be some tips in there along the way people get out of it yeah um
14:00
so i um actually come from a little place called kaiku which is on the west coast on northland
14:05
you go um through dargaville past kaiwee lakes so i kind of grew up there in a rural setting and then when i was about
14:12
eight years old moved up to the phantom peninsula which was pretty sweet because the fishings are real good there if
14:17
you're into your um and while i was going to school and my school was at the bottom of it of
14:22
a hill and at the top of the hill was the volunteer fire brigade and they were short of volunteer
14:29
firefighters during the day so they had this uh pretty good recruitment uh strategy and that was to bring down a couple of fire engines and start up a
14:35
big water fight which of course drew me in i was into that and then what the real clinch was though
14:41
is that one of those volunteer firefighters came over and they had a little uh black object it was a pager
14:46
and they said oh josh if you if you sign up today mate we'll give you this pager and whenever it goes off you can leave school
14:52
um so that that was certainly the ticket for me i i was right into that later that year we had our end of year
14:58
exams and the pager went off so i got to get out of those which was nice um and then
15:04
i was at 18 i was going to university and i dropped out of there because that wasn't really my deal at the time
15:09
and i applied for and was accepted into what was then the new zealand fire service it's now called um foreign emergency new zealand
15:16
as a career fifa in new zealand we've got a national fire service so it's not um region based or
15:21
anything like that go to about 80 000 emergency call-outs each year so that's everything from like motor
15:27
vehicle accidents uh structure fires vehicle fires industrial entrapments and now we also go to a lot
15:34
of medical calls so they call them purple calls anything involving cardiac or respiratory arrest
15:40
so i've been doing that as a career firefighter for 16 years now um and yeah hopefully
15:46
that's a little bit of background to my operational service but in terms of how i got involved in
15:52
the mental health side of things the well-being side of things uh there's a few things that are contributed to that
15:58
uh probably one of the more uh difficult ones to talk about right which is is kind of in part i think
16:05
while we're here today is because of the stigma involved in it so when i talk a little bit about my own experience of psychological injury
16:11
so like in my mid-20s um i experienced psychological injury uh for me it started as anxiety so um
16:19
the symptoms i kind of noticed was um just tightness in the chest i'd get this
16:24
thing called air hunger where i'd be breathing but it didn't feel like i was getting enough oxygen and and and it started to manifest in me
16:31
like being worried about my health being hyper vigilant around my health or having some type of medical event even
16:36
though physically i was in i was in pretty good knit um so i had that for quite a while and it was pretty intense
16:43
um and then after a couple years actually started experiencing depression or noticing that i was just feeling like
16:49
really down and hopeless and that went on for a couple years and i ended up experiencing um the fancy
16:57
term as suicidal ideation um but it basically meant that i started to have these kind of intrusive thoughts
17:03
about taking my own life and i was actually scared by them like i didn't want to take my own life but i think i've been feeling so hopeless for
17:10
so long that that is an option started to just come into my head you know i'd be driving along and i'd see a powerpoint i
17:17
feel like uh you know i could drive into that so like a pretty pretty dark place to be
17:22
a pretty despairing place to be and and i guess the real unfortunate thing
17:28
um is that it had to get to that before i felt like i should reach out to someone right it took years of first
17:35
anxiety and then depression and then getting to the state of having these suicidal thoughts um
17:40
that i that i went man i got to talk to someone about it and i did i reached out to a fellow firefighter i mean i think
17:46
part of the reason i hadn't done it earlier is honestly i felt i was afraid that i'd be thought of as a you know like i
17:53
work in a job much like um you all do where it's based around
17:58
the form and turning up for people and being strong and being brave and so i just thought you know this kind
18:04
of violates part of what i'm supposed to be and part of what i'm supposed to do and you know the really toxic side of
18:11
that is it meant that my what i was going through my injury got worse and worse and worse you know i could have
18:16
gotten to this years earlier and i'm pretty sure it wouldn't have um taken such a long time to heal
18:21
um so yeah i did i reached out to a fellow um firefighter and he wasn't a cli a psychologist or a counselor or
18:27
anything he was just a guy that um that was a friend that was non-judgmental um that held
18:34
space for me you know he'd like come around and say come on mate um let's get out let's do some exercise
18:40
um you know let's get out and do something together um but also encouraged me to connect up with some professional support so um
18:46
through my gp i was connected with a clinical psychologist and um yeah did therapy and it was
18:52
honestly one of the most um life-changing things i've i've ever done you know as reaching out to someone
18:58
and also getting some therapy and it was through that process of getting therapy like as difficult as it was at times
19:04
that i just became really intensely interested in like how how would i how had i found myself in this place you
19:09
know what what were the things that had led to this for me and um as i got well i i decided to push
19:16
into that i went back to university and i studied um violence and trauma a postgraduate pathway of violence and
19:21
trauma i became a peer supporter within foreign emergency and that was a really interesting thing because
19:27
you know when i was depressed and feel like i could talk to anyone part of
19:34
that was because i felt like i was the only one maybe i was the only one having these feelings or having these experiences
19:40
and what was interesting about going into peer support as i became more confident about telling my story was that my mates started
19:47
opening up to me and you know sometimes their anxiety or their depression was a
19:52
consequence of post-traumatic stuff so the calls we go to uh sometimes it was a result of stuff
19:58
from their childhood that they hadn't worked through or stuff going on in the um in their family life often it was
20:03
kind of a combination of all of that stuff coming together and there's a bit of a breaking point like that's kind of what my experience was
20:10
um but what i knew for sure after that was man i spent all those years thinking
20:15
i'm the only one going through this and i dare not tell anyone because they'll think i'm strange or weak or
20:20
and what i found out was actually now heaps of my mates and heaps of my colleagues were um navigating tough
20:26
times you know and actually found real value and and talking about it and sharing
20:31
um and so i got to i got the chance to kind of that that it was kind of funny like i'd be on overtime at a different
20:38
station and i literally had this experience a number of times where one of the guys would grab me uh pull me into an office shut the door
20:45
and be like and real hash tones you know being like oh bro you know you know how you've talked about your mental health
20:50
i'm actually struggling at the moment you know and it's kind of sad you know that that that's that's kind of what
20:56
stigma does you know about something that impacts a lot of us so fortunately um you know it's great
21:02
that you've got steve leading this stuff we're actually beginning to talk more about this stuff and that's certainly happening in fire stations too you know
21:09
we talk about um the stuff we're going through around the coffee table now a lot more than 10 or 20 years ago so
21:14
that's really encouraging to see um so yeah now i i guess the other part of
21:20
that is kind of 10 years on from that time in my life man how things have changed you know and i think one of the messages
21:27
um for anyone that's listening or has people that are struggling whether it's anxiety depression even suicidal
21:33
thinking is there is always hope you know and um it's hard at the time when you're in that kind of mindset
21:40
to find that but uh it is there and at least from my experiment experience the
21:46
truth has been that suffering's a part of life and these and these moments in our lives and darkness are a part of
21:51
life but the promise um that i've experienced on the other side of that has always been like restoration and and hope and
21:58
life again you know and like i've gone on now to be involved in work that i
22:04
wake up in the morning and i look forward to you know i love my life i really enjoy my life now and 10 years
22:09
ago they just that didn't seem like it would ever be possible i remember a moment at night thinking like i just
22:15
don't see any way out of this i don't see this ever getting better
22:22
than it ever did even before i experienced that psychological injury so yeah um that message of hope um of
22:28
reaching out to someone else you know um you're not a burden that's what i found as well people want to help
22:33
out you know i find it a privilege when someone reaches out to me and the biggest thing that i figured out
22:40
about this whole stigma thing is people see what i've done now in terms of speaking out about my psychological
22:46
injury and you know my moments of um vulnerability they actually see it as strength you know no one's no one said
22:53
i'm a or thought i'm a because of that they've actually seen it as a real strength and i've said man i wish i had the courage to do that you
22:58
know to talk about my journey or to share so openly so um i think that's been a big thing as well
23:06
awesome thanks josh and some really powerful messages there um and i'm definitely going to circle back
23:12
to some of that uh leonard conversation later on because there's a few things there i'd like to follow up with you on um jason
23:19
your turn mate yeah hey um yeah i suppose uh
23:25
just i suppose just a quick example of how um you know uh
23:30
mental well-being can sort of affect um people and this particular soldiers i'll just give a good example then i'll just
23:36
give some tips um like i was asked i like so i joined up in sort of the the mid 80s and uh around there you know
23:43
eight week exercises uh 180k kilometer marches fitness you know
23:49
weekly you know those type of things and they're currently loads over uh big terrain with
23:56
substandard kit you know all those type of things and uh that was the nature of uh
24:01
within the infantry and uh that was our job and so uh but over a long period of time it didn't
24:07
take a toll physically on uh on our people and i think my cohort out here
24:13
sort of my age will sort of uh may hear that and go yeah that was i
24:18
think however in those days um if you got an injury or you're feeling ill or you weren't up
24:24
to it you was frowned upon to go to the medical center and if you're caught outside there you'd
24:30
be frowned upon because um you'd be sort of looked at like you couldn't handle it
24:37
uh you're weak um you're a bit of a malingerer um and you're trying to get like duty so
24:43
there's that real um sticking around so people wouldn't go so the second and third order effect of that is
24:49
painkillers now long eight week exercise you've got to get up for the next game and it
24:54
continues so you know some soldiers were taking painkillers to get through they didn't want to
25:01
look weak in front of those um inspiring leaders and those mentors so
25:07
that's what happened so physically if you're broken down and you're taking those type of things mentally it takes a
25:12
toll and uh over time some of my friends left and uh some
25:19
got chord changes to other um to other cause trades that didn't have
25:24
that sort of meat-eating uh mentality
25:29
uh you know i know that uh uh some some out there will reminisce with that and that's why i think some of
25:35
my cohort right now um that's why they're still broken that's why they're more broken than most inside as in as an
25:42
engine physically because we never got the help we needed because uh it wasn't the thing to do so that's one example of
25:48
it i think that mentality changed when operations came around within 95 up to 2000s where
25:55
my thing change too we need to be healthy we need to be fit to be able to go on operations and we need to look after each other and that that change
26:02
over time so that's i think that's an example of what i've seen coming through of how it's spun around but
26:09
certainly still affects uh my code because i know that someone listening um still find it hard to
26:15
ask for help and i totally call kane and josh around talking about it but still you know
26:22
still a lot of us think we're bulletproof um uh and it won't affect us but it has
26:28
you just baggaged it up and that's all that is you know uh so just a couple of tips that i've got uh that i've um i
26:34
think the big one in our total um um josh around uh
26:39
a confidant in your corner you know someone who's trusted you can tell everything now when i say confidant
26:46
uh they don't listen to fix they listen to listen and that and over my time um it's
26:52
that's really helped me just i know i can just uh vent or i can just talk about things that happen in my life uh
26:59
and it's not going anywhere and they're just listening so i think that's really really takes a lot of weight off
27:04
it's 100 okay to uh prioritize your own wellness you know and especially leaders
27:12
uh leaders of the worst they spend all their career looking after people it's their focus that's their mahi
27:18
that's the responsibility and they forget forget it and neglect themselves all the time and i've done that before
27:25
and it took a trusted friend to say hey you need to stop me you need to look after yourself
27:30
and uh you know it's an oldie but a goodie by my old man always said to me like uh if you're not right how do you expect
27:36
to look after others and that's sort of uh i think that's key the other thing too is um
27:42
you know this you know you don't have to be kano to uh check in on your mates you know now now it's platform basically just
27:47
soon getting this meeting or facetime it's it's easy just to check in so that's why other one is although
27:53
something might not affect you uh just checking on your mates um and we all know that in defense um it's easy to
27:59
pick up a phone sometimes we don't but hey you know it's there yeah so that's that's my tips
28:05
awesome jose thanks very much so uh great tips so what we'll do i've got another poll here launch drawing on both
28:11
kind of josh's and and jason's tips right around you know just talked about and joseph talked about the imports of
28:17
who you go to and knowing who to go to and they've both talked about sort of stigma and and engaging with the medical
28:22
system or the health system so we're going to launch this poll now and there's two questions there so i'm interested in people kind of uh filling
28:28
that out and see and let's see where we land on this question
28:35
cool so the first one is if you're struggling
28:40
who would you feel comfortable going to and then the second question there
28:47
is what might be some reasons which would make you hesitant to reach out for support or have difficulty
28:53
reaching out for support you guys see those here we go
28:59
[Music]
29:32
okay so currently in terms of for you to reach our two partners and mates the top of the list
29:39
health provider or gp is there but it's it's uh lagging well behind
29:46
colleagues or workers there but again it doesn't marry up or mention them so mates and far and partners are the kind
29:52
of key supports most of us
30:00
and then our second question there you know and everyone sort of touched on it in their own way of stigma writing about
30:05
how you might be treated or judged is the kind of key concern
30:11
as well as a preference to manage things yourself and we know that in our workforce in the defence force there's a
30:16
strong preference to manage things yourself part of that it comes from that i think
30:22
that desire to be sort of autonomous and independent but i suspect part of it is also related to that
30:28
stigma stuff as well cool okay so we'll draw those calls to a
30:34
close now but some some clear kind of trends here right um partners and stigma is a very real
30:41
issue for for many of you okay have you guys so have you guys got any comments on those poll results any
30:47
observations as you see those
30:56
not really no surprises oh yeah i mean i i totally agree with mates you know
31:01
there's a shared experience you know with friends and i i get the partner thing but then i think some some
31:06
of my friends has gone to mates because it's a shared experience and there's an understanding that you've been through the same experience that
31:12
you've got to understand a little bit more yeah yeah kind of like what jason's saying
31:18
like that's why um we do the peer support system now you know because it's that lived experiencing um you might not be
31:26
comfortable like in our context telling your partner about some of the calls you go to
31:32
asking him um you might not be comfortable you know talking to someone you don't know at all a mental health professional
31:38
but you can talk to talk to one of your mates about it i think the important thing is to have you know more than one door you can
31:44
knock on you know so whether that's a partner or a trusted gp
31:50
or a peer it's good to have a couple doors open to you
31:55
yeah great great observation and just to kind of answer that question here and now as well like if you're in the defence force
32:01
we do have a lot of doors right we've got our chaplains our social workers health centers oh 800 nz dfu is another
32:07
free phone line so so if you are struggling you know just to remind you that there are a lot of places you can go and just i'll just jump on that
32:14
opportunity as the as achievement health officer to do that yeah um good uh okay so that makes sense right
32:21
and it's really consistent uh if you look on the new defense health website um
32:26
health.nb um there is um
32:33
uh a whole bunch of stories of people who and their own journeys with well-being and the consistent theme that and it's
32:40
similar to what you said josh in those is that now once people start opening up um
32:46
they're often surprised and relieved to find that many of their mates are going through the same sort of stuff and uh
32:51
and that really helps when it comes to dealing with it and doing things that are that are going to help you get
32:57
things better for you as well so oftentimes we do assume that we're by ourselves and we're the only ones going through
33:04
this and and it's when we kind of seek help that we realize that that's that's not true
33:10
cool so i wanted to kind of touch on one of the points that that some of you made as well it's kind of my opening question
33:15
and in in each of your own stories you sort of alluded to um kind of early or the the barriers that
33:23
people face so what i wanted to talk about was what are some of the internal barriers
33:29
so there's like the stigma being one of those what are some of the things that we tell ourselves
33:35
that stop us from seeking help when we see when we notice maybe we could do with a hand so we might notice some of
33:41
those signs josh talked about or where i might notice our stress to pick up on cain's point getting on top of us or our
33:47
sleep getting disrupted or we might notice like injuries that we're ignoring and that's impacting on our life so what
33:53
are some of the things that that we tell ourselves that stop us from from your observation from getting help kane you
33:59
come with me yeah so i just wanted to um i think this ties in nicely with what josh and jason
34:05
have said as well they both mentioned uh toughness um and you know the industries that
34:11
we're all in you know when you think about guys in the army or defence force you think david goggins and and how much of a hard bastard he is and you know the
34:18
typical farmer we have a massive problem with it here um we measure a lot of our worth on how tough we are
34:25
and um you know in terms of my own story like i was a really shy kid
34:31
and when i was about nine years old i was actually sexually abused as well so i had had uh you know zero confidence
34:38
but also had a had a bit of an anger and hatred uh brewing through my teenage
34:43
years and you can imagine that went really well um teenagers are already angry enough and and i had a bit of a bit more reason to
34:49
be angry and particularly through my early career uh farming i was thrown into
34:55
[Music] roles that were really challenging i went to quite a high level quite quickly
35:00
so sort of thrown in the fire and learnt a lot of things the hard way and
35:05
you know i took up took up boxing at a young young age as a way to um prove my toughness but also get rid
35:12
of you know release some of that anger in a positive way which i'm really thankful for but you know when i look back at my life
35:18
now a lot of those teenage years and and right through my 20s was spent
35:24
um trying to prove to people that i was tough and what i've found is that
35:30
uh toughness does wear away over time um when you i i used to rely on my toughness to just
35:37
grin and bear you know day after day whether it was out on the farm or on the rugby field or in the boxing ring
35:43
you know you just completely rely on it all the time it was my go-to to just just head down ass
35:49
up and just just go through whatever it took to get the job done um
35:54
but what i've found as i look back on life now is that
35:59
if you're smart about things and you can um you know deal with things in another
36:05
way without relying on your toughness it actually makes you tougher because that toughness doesn't get worn
36:10
down so quick you know so it's for me that that that battle in my head to go and get
36:17
help and and sort some of my out was not to rely on my toughness you know not
36:22
to tough it out it was to say well actually i'm not getting any tougher i'm
36:27
just just like it's it's someone hammering away on a rock of toughness you know sooner or later one of those
36:33
hammers is gonna gonna start chipping some stone off and and that's what happens with life and that's what i see
36:38
uh a lot in the farming community and no doubt it's no different there is is that sooner or later those challenges that
36:45
get fired at that rock of hardness gets gets battered and chipped away whereas we actually need to stop the hammering
36:51
so much you know that's the smart way to do it um and you know so for me it was
36:56
it was really that big obstacle of of i don't need to prove to anyone else that i'm tough uh you know i know what i've
37:03
been through and what i've overcome to be who i am and where i am i don't have to prove any of that to
37:08
anyone else it's it's you know understanding and start telling yourself that story that
37:14
you know to get through life and live to a ripe old age and and be successful and positive in life we actually need to be
37:21
smart about what we're doing and you know that ties into everything i think we've said is you know
37:27
uh being able to be vulnerable going to get help when you need it um being smart with who you hang around
37:33
with what you consume and how you look after yourself i think was was a really big barrier for me was
37:38
just you stripping away that toughness as the first first layer of defense and um
37:45
just being smarter about stuff smarter about yourself and and how you live your life
37:51
yeah a lot of that resonates i think certainly with me kane and with when i've heard the stories of service members there's a great deal of that
37:57
that sounds very familiar but i can just speak to that to say i was thinking about um what you're saying
38:02
there cane as well and i think part of the reason why um like when i think about toughness
38:09
it's it can be um interesting right because i i don't find it that difficult to go into a fully involved structure
38:14
fire right like in these phrases you know firefighters go in one direction when everyone else is going out the
38:20
other you know and actually the hardest things i've had to do in my life haven't had to do with cutting people out of cars or going into
38:26
a burning building like undoubtedly it's been this journey with my mental health you know
38:31
the hardest things like and and the things that um require the most bravery or courage from me hasn't been going
38:37
into a burning building it's been reaching out for help funnily enough um and i think about that sometimes
38:42
because like part of the reason i'm not too worried about going into these dangerous situations job is i've got really good
38:49
um protective equipment i've had lots of training um you know i'm familiar with those environments
38:55
but i i don't have those same tools around my mental health you know and so
39:01
i think that's one of the things that these types of initiatives help with are like so people can feel
39:07
um like they can push into vulnerability more like what are the tools um what is the training you've had in it do you
39:13
have people who have been there before and done it that can give you the confidence that hey i can be vulnerable
39:18
and it's not going to end me you know just in the same way that when i went and did my national training center
39:23
course i've exposed the these situations time and time again in a controlled environment where i went yeah i can go
39:30
into this fire and come out all right in the same way i think you know we need more of that culture and
39:36
um that demonstrate and almost train us in vulnerability that we know hey i can be vulnerable um i can admit that i'm
39:43
not invincible and and i'll be okay not only will i be okay i can
39:48
grow and be more of a person be more courageous be more brave as a consequence of those things so yeah
39:54
that's something that i think about quite often when we talk about you know um invulnerability and bravery and
39:59
courage you know it's like it's easier for me to go into a um burning building than it was to pick up the phone and and
40:05
call a psychologist you know i see there's a um question there too around um what if
40:11
what if those things aren't options and um it reminded me of a piece of research
40:17
they i'm trying to stay away from the research today but they did this big study over in australia like 20 000 first responders i
40:23
think it might have been defence force personnel as well and they looked at stigma and what they found was this
40:28
there was this huge perception around stigma that if i was open and vulnerable my peers would think poorly of me
40:35
um but they also asked those peers or everyone what would you think of someone um if they opened up to you that are
40:41
struggling with something and it was less than one percent of people um that that would make a difference in
40:48
their change of view of people so so what they told us is actually it's our perceptions
40:53
um of how other people would respond if we're vulnerable then the reality of that situation and that's certainly been
40:59
true of my story like i had that perception as well but it hasn't held true like the more i've talked about it
41:04
and i'm not saying there won't be some people that are um not further enough along in their journey that they might
41:09
bring some you know really unhelpful stuff if you opened up that's of course a possibility but in large and from my
41:16
experience it's been the opposite so um you know if you if you don't have a partner you can open up to a gp
41:22
uh or a friend then there are there's there's those other options you know if you don't feel uncomfortable about defense force um
41:29
helplines uh in new zealand you got 1737 you can call or text anytime 24 7 that's
41:35
free um so there's definitely other options outside your kind of family setting or even your work setting that
41:40
you can kind of reach out to for help yeah great josh and and you know just without wanting to kind of go down a
41:46
research rabbit hole in terms of that research that you mentioned we know from research across military personnel that
41:54
if you are struggling you particularly think that others are going to judge you so when you're in a good state of mind
41:59
you're less inclined to feel judged if you if you but because when you're struggling you're in a threat to taking you know
42:06
you're in a threat detection kind of mindset you assume others are going to judge you even when they're not you're more likely to do that right so so again
42:13
the you know that's just another kind of barrier to people when they're really struggling jumping into hell
42:20
jace you've got any kind of thoughts around just kind of what what gets in the way and any other observations around that
42:27
yeah it's such a like a kiwi guy thing you know i'll tough that pass you know i'll wait it out it's just
42:34
something i've got to get through and i think over time our communication has mentioned it has evolved you know 15 years ago on a
42:42
penalty pop might not have got a few anyone yeah uh but you know so yeah we've evolved in
42:47
that type of uh but it is i think it's communication i'll sort of go back to why um
42:52
people will not ask for help um and uh and a lot of this pertain to me also i mean not wanting to put to
42:59
burden others with your stuff you know that's a that's a big one that's how i sort of grew up in a maori
43:04
family you didn't sort of don't want to burden anyone and again for our people what new zealanders
43:11
they don't want to burden everyone and it's that sort of tough uh exterior uh not one week we've talked about that um in
43:18
front of respected mentors or people you know you don't want them to think any different of you
43:24
especially for our young people um and i was gave an example before in the beginning of the 80s 90s
43:31
uh who did i go to like who did i go to to talk to
43:36
and that was stuff that i especially asked for help and i suppose there's a thing about i forgot you know well-being seems to be in some
43:44
some areas it could be frowned upon you're not up to it and then people are afraid that they may get medically discharged or
43:50
treated differently by the medical system so they won't they'll go outside of the organisation and you know that can be so you won't
43:56
hear about it they'll do it by themselves outside um yeah interesting about knowing who to
44:02
talk to i think one one um so just one quick example of that is i got an appointment uh and then it was
44:07
appointment that i really really enjoyed and wanted and i focused 100 on it and i focused in and you know sort of
44:14
working six to nine at night and um and i didn't see it i was in the game and one of the trusted
44:21
uh friend of mine sort of came and spoke to me about it because i might lost my sense of humor i was making so i was
44:26
agitated i was just really focused and it came and then trusted confidence came in and sort of
44:33
sort of spelt it out to me i really did look back and i reflected and i said yeah i mean i don't know what happened there i just you know uh and things were
44:40
suffering so i stood back um and i paused and i had a look at it and i really worked it out but what i
44:45
was really disappointed is i was actually showing people what bad look like
44:51
you know and we're balanced on preaching work balance life balance and well-being but i was showing them what bad look
44:57
like and i really disappointed me because you know people look to you they look up to you and so i really really
45:02
worked on that and to show them what good looked like and i think that was key for me
45:08
awesome chase yeah a very true point i've seen that many times in defense too you know
45:14
any other any other comments for you guys before i launch went into another question so i guess just to build on that right
45:20
you know you've all talked about early warning signs you know you talked about sort of anger being one for you kane and
45:25
and that kind of being an early warning sign and josh you talked about anxiety and some of the stuff attached to that as well then
45:31
you know write it down until feeling suicidal uh towards the end of it just in the latter part of that journey and
45:37
then nj she talked about uh you know other early warning signs and yourself in terms of losing your sense of humor
45:44
so what tips would you give to someone who sees it in a mate or in a colleague or
45:49
in someone they work with about how to how to how to what to do next if they see early
45:55
warning signs and someone and they're not sure what to do about it because i think for a lot of us that's a question that we we grapple with right
46:02
so what would you what tips would you give someone who's seen early warning signs in a mate and uh and what to do next
46:10
yeah i think um you know we touched on vulnerability um a little bit earlier but
46:18
you know for those people if you do see someone struggling as you've sort of got to reach out and and show some
46:23
vulnerability first and you know if you have a think about yourself people you would talk to it's the people that you
46:30
perceive as open already and and not gonna judge um so so you need to show that to those
46:37
around you as well and and it really starts with actually i think the people that are in a good place
46:43
um still being open and honest with those around them and and you'll find that
46:49
those people that are struggling or certainly i have they'll come to you because they see you as that person
46:54
that's not going to judge and you know you've talked about your own before um you know so so you're seen as a safe
47:01
um safe place you know and i think that's really the key is is we all we've all got to buy into just
47:08
being open and honest and showing a bit of vulnerability so that others will come to us and and um and be willing i think
47:16
yeah what about yourself joshua yeah that's a tough one eh because you
47:21
can you can have trained uh mental health professionals that that miss out on on science's
47:28
responsibility to kind of be over top of that but i think what can help with that is that that phenomena peace right which
47:33
is like if you're you're if you're actually connected to someone you know got a strong friendship you know what
47:39
normal looks like for them and then that makes it easier to pick up on things that are maybe not so normal so like i
47:45
think about that in terms of you know if we go to a potentially traumatic call like a suicide or a
47:50
homicide or something and then you know one of the guys who's normally quite extroverted and you know at the
47:57
smoke table with the banter is you know just hanging out in their room
48:03
for the next couple weeks because i know what their normal is you know because we've got their friendship and that relationship i can actually go oh that's
48:10
i can hurt him up and say hey man like you know normally you're out of the smoke table you know with some good natured ribbing and i've just noticed
48:16
you've been hanging out in your room like is everything okay um because for some other people like
48:22
maybe they're more introverted and hanging out in their room is normal for them they like some alone time so i think that that foundation of
48:28
relationship and friendship can be key to kind of helping us understand you know when
48:34
someone's not out of their kind of normal space and i think something else that comes out there um where the research can help a little
48:40
bit is people sometimes um are worried about asking people if they're okay um or
48:46
worried about asking like a hard question like hey are you having suicidal thoughts maybe you're really worried about someone
48:52
and they're worried that maybe if i asked them about you know suicide or something like that that that
48:59
would trigger suicide or contribute to them actually taking that step and um what we know from the research is
49:05
that's absolutely not the case if anything it gives them an opportunity um or a daughter to reaching out and so i
49:12
think that can be quite helpful to know is like if you are really worried about someone and you and you've picked up on
49:17
some stuff maybe through your relationship with them that hey things are not right like this is not how they normally act
49:22
it's okay to actually reach out to them and say hey that you're not hanging out anymore or
49:29
you're not making contact or you're not exercising anymore i noticed that you've been despondent have you been have you
49:35
been thinking about taking your own life which seems like a real heavy thing to say but if they're not they'll tell you
49:41
and if they are there's a chance that your doorway for them to to connect and so um i think that that can be helpful
49:48
to know is that um it's okay to ask people that kind of real direct question
49:54
yeah great point josh and just as a advert if anyone's unit wants some
49:59
guidance or some training on how to ask those questions in a bit of practice you know those really serious questions about suicide or self-harm then let me
50:07
know get in touch with me and we'll uh help you sort that out and arrange that stuff but um josh's point about uh
50:14
just being brave uh and having that and that and saying that the sort of answer asking the answer question that's that's
50:21
very consistent with the research as well so jay mister rapin have you got any kind of uh thoughts around what to do if
50:27
you're worried about a guy yeah so uh sometimes it takes a lot of time uh two you know there's these mates and
50:33
then there's trusted trusted friends so you get you know you get their trust over time to pick it up uh but yeah
50:40
there's two two two thoughts and i've done it two ways and there's the direct there's the direct because you know and
50:46
that's what happened to me when i see my mate came in that was he was direct because he couldn't use my friend and you know shock and capture in it
50:54
got to realize what's happening but then that's it taking time and what i've found is like i said before just got to listen you know listen for those cues or
51:01
watch for the social cues and what i've found passive i see that um
51:07
i may talk about a personal story to them about me and i've found that that um just that
51:13
sort of vulnerability there uh actually um shakes somehow and it is that you start
51:19
that that sort of uh talk with them and i've found that's happened a couple of times too because they're in the same boat
51:25
just like uh josh said before sometimes you'll think the only one with an issue um you know everyone's got a story and
51:31
everyone's got something going on it's complex life and so yeah starting with yourself and i think
51:36
that really opens people up yeah awesome and i you know that's no i agree with all of that and if i could um
51:43
just because i can't help myself off for a couple of my thought or top tips as well as trust your gut man like the
51:49
number of times if you've got a bad feeling you know if you've got a bad gut feel about something or someone
51:56
then trust that you know and when we're busy stress we forget to do that right so so um so let yourself notice that and
52:03
then the other one on my other tip to people is don't wait for it not to be awkward because it's probably and in fact if it's awkward
52:10
that's because you made the right call you know if it's not awkward then then you know nothing to see here but if it
52:15
gets awkward that's probably because you did exactly the right thing so so don't wait for it not to be awkward and kind of trust your courage i can trust you
52:21
and trust your um uh that you know you can be there with them in that even when it's hard and
52:27
it's going to be okay because they're not alone cool so we've got um we've got about
52:32
five minutes left so this is a question here that i thought it might be useful just to touch on from someone in
52:38
the audience so um so imposter syndrome and performance anxiety is something that that many of
52:43
us struggle with and you've also alluded to that sense of uh wanting to be a high performer and protecting that
52:50
version of yourself and that impression of yourself um so i just wanted does anyone have any tips on kind of how to
52:58
address that that performance anxiety and and desire to and you know push yourself
53:05
don't worry about being seen as um imposter syndrome is definitely something i've
53:12
battled with on and off um over particularly over the last couple of years since i've been on sort of social
53:17
media and putting my head up against above the the other poppies i guess but
53:23
um i think the thing to remember with uh particularly impostor syndrome is
53:29
imposter syndrome is all about other people and when you have that i think you're
53:35
taking the focus off yourself and what you believe in and what you're you're doing and you're giving that power to someone
53:41
else um so it's it's a thing but it's not actually a thing because no one actually gives a um generally you know um
53:49
you know you can be whatever you want to be in it and it's not many people are actually going to
53:55
call you out on it or or um you know question your your capabilities in most
54:00
cases so um for me what i what i really focus on when i do feel that is is
54:06
putting my focus back on me and back on my insider and you know my purpose of what i'm doing and
54:13
you know as long as you're doing it for the right reasons there's no actual uh there shouldn't be a reason to have
54:19
impostor syndrome so it's all about refocusing on myself that's how i deal with it
54:24
and performance anxiety i'm a big believer in competence creates confidence
54:30
um you know it's something we all go through and deal with you can ask any sportsman or any high performer they
54:37
still get nervous and and to me that's a good sign um it shows that you care um
54:43
but it's just being able to have that power so that you can use it in a positive and it doesn't take over so i
54:49
don't have a lot of tips on that um but for me it's just about refocusing on on
54:54
me and what i know i can do what i know i'm good at what are my strengths are and when you can focus on your
55:00
weaknesses and and just um you know have a have a sharp blade so to speak in all areas
55:06
uh but yeah that's that's about what i've got to offer on that thanks kane any any other tips on
55:12
imposter syndrome or yeah yeah i've just got i suppose um especially for uh our people's fishing
55:18
and defense perfection is the enemy of good you know it always has been and um you
55:24
know good for you is good enough and we can build on that um uh and another thing i i just mean that
55:31
i saw was look in the mirror that's your competition and not worry about uh you know others
55:38
and where they're at and you'll get to where you want and just be your best you know
55:43
around so that's what yeah so that's my comments around that yeah
55:49
josh you've got anything to add to those no no no not really i i think um
55:55
yeah i think the one the only other thing i wanted to talk to um steve that we kind of talked about is this idea of
56:01
well-being and you know um we've talked a lot about the individual things we can do you know to look out
56:07
for our our own well-being but there's this kind of saying that you're 100 responsible for your 50
56:14
you know which i think really rings true and you know we do have a responsibility to our own well-being you know whether
56:20
that's eating well exercising you know reaching out but actually you know the organizations that we that
56:26
we um preside and you know the societies that we're in they also have a responsibility to to the well-being of
56:32
their people and so i think that's a challenge um you know for steve and his crew as much as anything because as too
56:38
often i find um you know and i i'll be honest like i was a little bit hesitant about this webinar because it's like
56:45
you know often this kind of stuff can be perceived as a as a box sticking exercise you know we've got an eap service you know we've got josh and um
56:53
uh kane and jason and to speak sweet we've done we've done our bit but actually you know it's so important that
56:59
organizations are taking um they're 100 responsible of their 50
57:05
you know and that's making sure that as a leadership they're living out this these things we've talked about a vulnerability you know of of reframing
57:13
courage of putting people before you know business you know that it's incredibly important um and so i think
57:19
that's a challenge to we've gotta share for individuals but there also needs to be a challenge for for organizations for
57:25
governments to to step up and and take responsibility for for the well-being of their people as well and and both of
57:32
those things are important you know and both of those things need to happen side by side
57:40
responsibility gets laid on the individual and um and it's actually violated by how an organization at times
57:46
or a leadership behaves so um yeah i i really appreciated this opportunity steve and you know you're the one who
57:52
said yeah mate talk about that side of stuff as well which i think is is of um real credit to you and and the
57:58
organization if that's the culture that you guys are working towards so yeah cheers oh yeah looking um i'm glad you raised
58:05
that uh josh because that we know from the research around military one of the best predictors of whether the service
58:10
member is going to come home okay from mission is their answer to the question do you trust your team and do you trust your
58:16
boss and if those two the answers to those two questions is yes then they're much more likely to come home okay right
58:21
you know so so all the good things that all the things that we know make for good leaders and good units in terms of
58:27
looking out for each other being real with each other with being okay to not be okay today you know all that kind of
58:33
stuff all the stuff that you guys have touched on are all all important kind of organizational and
58:38
team level um factors that contribute to kind of being well and doing well on battlefield now
58:45
at home with your whanau and and you know we're working on all that stuff in defence but i fully acknowledge
58:50
that there's a lot of stuff we can and should do better and if you've got good ideas about that then please if you're
58:55
watching this don't hesitate to get in touch with me we've got a you know a number of pieces of work underway which won't bore you
59:01
with where we're trying to begin to address some of those things but but if you've got good ideas please
59:07
don't hesitate to get in touch um and if you see any real burning platforms in terms of the way the organization is
59:13
working with them for our people and please also get in touch with me around that stuff and i will and i will endeavour to
59:20
address those things so i know that we've had our the end of our one hour and so i just first of all
59:26
want to thank you all for sharing so readily of your experience and sharing some very very and being vulnerable and
59:31
modeling that vulnerability and and i know that some of the topics that we've touched on today are going to
59:37
be very real for us uh things like suicide sexual abuse
59:44
having a kind of even some of that uh sort of very isolated man up i think meat eating culture is that kind of um
59:52
is very real and very and leaves many of our people feeling lonely so so i just want to acknowledge the kind
59:58
of that the weight of some of our content from today and uh and
1:00:05
so before we close things off um i'd just like to draw a few a few kind
1:00:11
of observations or tips that stood out to me one is um was actually kane's point about writing
1:00:18
stuff down you know we know that that makes a difference and is often a thing that doesn't occur to service members
1:00:23
the benefit of that so i really would encourage you to come to to sort of think trial that particularly for things
1:00:29
like sleep if you're having worry with sleep that kind of stuff's really important like as a practical tip um but also you know the importance of
1:00:35
modeling good good well-being behaviors of of being vulnerable being human with the
1:00:42
people you're around around you all and so there's so many good points from today
1:00:47
so i just want to thank all of you for those um and uh and so but just to close things off today what i'd like to do is just
1:00:53
offer us more karakia acknowledging the weight of some of the stuff that we talked about um and then and then we'll
1:00:59
close the session off and carry on with our busy lives
1:01:25
so um thanks so much to you guys for um for making time today and uh we'll see
1:01:32
and thanks to those of you who are tinted today as well um well i'll hang around for a little bit if there's anyone any questions that anyone has for
1:01:38
me or anyone wants to raise anything with me um but for that for our attendees thanks again i'll see you uh
1:01:44
see you when we see you awesome to our panelists thanks very much panelists we'll catch you later
1:01:50
thank you very much can't wait